Ukraine According to Ukrainians. What Emerges. And Why Those Nazis Matter

Twisting Polls Leads to Shafting

A recent poll published by VoxUkraine that was undertaken by their VoxCheck arm and CBR, a Ukrainian marketing research firm, provides a very different image of Ukraine than the one that's been pounded into us by the Western media machine and the tribal idiots who still gobble up their clear BS, this despite the poll's purported focus, it being: "The ability of Ukrainians to distinguish messages of Russian propaganda."

The research was concluded "to investigate the ability of Ukrainians to identify pro-Russian narratives and factors influencing this ability. As a result, it was possible to identify the topics most sensitive to Russian propaganda and how to counteract them."

In other words: The survey hoped to identify roughly how many Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians 'across the globe' weren't in full support of the narrative pushed by Kyiv; anyone expressing doubts or deviating from the view that the Zelenskyy regime finds acceptable is considered a Russian collaborator or someone who's allowed Russian propaganda to get the better of them.

The logic: It can't possibly be that one's opposing views—these being well-supported and genuine—are representative of one's lived experience; if it criticises Ukraine or elevates Russia in any way, then: it's propaganda, it's Russian, and it's evil.  And if you don't agree, the SBU would like to have a talk with you.

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The collective West and the media that serves as its bully pulpit have avoided discussing this aspect—or did so to ridicule it—not being shy to smear and ush those with any significant social clout who've voiced it, the latter validating the former: Anyone within Kyiv's reach is arrested, if not disappeared, for voicing anything that it considers to be pro-Russian sentiments, and anyone it can't immediately get its hands on is added to their "The Peacemaker" hit list, which includes journalists and public figures across the world, and even a shocking number of Ukrainian teens, too.

Thousands of Ukrainian citizens have been hauled away, and very credible allegations of mass killings of ethnic-Russian citizens by the more unsavory groups within the Ukrainian forces have been made, albeit these being ignored by the West. Conversely, there's ample evidence to question the claims made by Kyiv regarding the mass graves it claims to have found.

And Kyiv's reach extends beyond Ukraine's borders. Take Pablo Gonzales, a Spanish/Russian journalist arrested in Poland and held in pre-trial custody since February 2022, accused of being pro-Russian. Kyiv has leaned on NATO countries to censor certain individuals or to counter certain group efforts, and we know from the GOP-led hearings on the Weaponization of Information that, in the early weeks following the launch of Russia's SMO, Kyiv had been given direct access to the major social media platforms and had requested that certain comments be dealt with.

In its hilariously pathetic and maddening way, the people involved in that report found a way to convert what appears to be an over-filtration issue into a Russian infiltration operation, Russians having, evidently, passed themselves off as Ukrainians, for how else to explain that a few pro-Ukraine posts had been flagged for removal by Ukraine?

I hate to have to point out the obvious to their state-approved "pros", but it seems quite clear that the pro-Ukrainian posts removed were erroneously flagged, these containing what's sure to be key search words, like "Nazi" and "proxy", all examples provided presenting a statement that negated pro-Russian assertions.

But, no matter the act or situation, the Russians and Chinese always manage to one-up the West on all that qualifies as "evil", don't you know. Not sure the West realizes how pathetic and incompetent it's actually managing to come across at this point, always having to sink a bit lower to find spinnable material?

By the way, what to make of the abbot of the Kyiv Pechersk Lavra, Metropolitan Pavlo, a senior Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) figure, having now been placed in pre-trial detention as he's facing charges for having voiced opinions deemed to be too pro-Russian? Pavlo has been under house arrest since April 2023, accused of having "glorified the Russian invasion".

On the other hand, Kyiv has been accused of continuing the purge it claims hasn't been happening... Zeesky is just shutting down evil entities and individuals that are pushing pro-Russia talking points and have been known to collaborate with Moscow, so he claims. But the padding around what qualifies as dangerously anti-Ukrainian seems to leave far too much space for interpretation, and it boils down to: anything Russian, overtly leftist, or against Kyiv.

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Overlooked is the fact that Kyiv had been encouraged to wage war with its eastern section rather than seek peace, the false-front that were the Minsk agreements making it impossible to argue that aspect, as do the handling of all further attempts made by Russia.

There's a burning hatred in Galicia whose flames were willingly revived and fed plenty of fuel.

The 1929-founded Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists that had split in 1940 into the OUN-M and the more ominous OUN-B, the latter being linked to many mass killings, including the Lviv Pogroms, which is the arm that had been led by the now infamous radical, Stepan Bandera, well, it still plays an important role. We're to believe that the group faded into history, but the CIA played a crucial role in keeping it alive with the onset of the Cold War. A KGB agent having assassinated Bandera stirs up anti-Russian hate still.

The Bendera branch is said to have been the more 'intense' one, but that's in approach only, it seems, as "both factions exhibited similar levels of radical nationalism, fascism, antisemitism, xenophobia and violence." (Source)  Bandera "viewed and used mass violence as a political aim and killed civilians en masse," a bit more easily than the other branch along with more ideologically-related and less operational-based differences.

There was another split in 1956, a more moderate OUN breaking away from the still very radical Banderite-led OUN-B./p>

For some odd reason, not long after the US' first effort to install a West-aiming government through the Orange revolution of 2004 turned out to be short-lived, Bandera's popularity started making an open comeback.

After the US had in 2008, on the record, pitched the idea that Ukraine would make a good NATO member, which happened to be some months after Putin's 2007 global declaration that a unipolar world presents a risk to all, Bandera gained more than traction; he was named Hero of Ukraine by the very pro-West/NATO Viktor Yushchenko (2010). This received much scorn and it was reversed in 2011, but it was re-reversed, just not officially, Bandera even seeing new monuments, murals, and streets dedicated to him.

After the First World War, there appeared a change in the nationalist attitudes expressed across Europe, the new shape being called "Integral Nationalism", which placed the nation above all else, directly under God. Ukraine, however, embraced a more 'intense' version called “active nationalism,” this version having been created by a publicist in the 1920s but formed the political doctrine that forged the radical right-wing ideology now embraced by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army since after WWII.

According to this ideology: "Politics was seen as a Darwinian struggle between nations for survival, rendering conflict unavoidable and justifying any means that would lead to the victory of one's nation over that of others. In this context willpower was seen as more important than reason, and warfare was glorified as an expression of national vitality."  (Source)

I was struck by the central role that that idea played in declarations and manifestos published by the OUN from the 1930s onward, this ideal—can't avoid a fight and any means to win, the motto—has been firmly revived and adopted by those who see themselves as a continuity of the OUN ethnonationalist mindset, their organizations parallel if not direct descendants of the OUN. The OUN's slogan is what's now collectively chanted by supporters of the Kyiv regime.

And from then to today—though more then—the OUN's history offers plenty of very sordid, violent, bigoted, and racist bits.

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Pre-WWII, the OUN viewed the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church as an enemy, and denounced practitioners as state informers and vilified them; not a new hobby, it seems. Today, there can only be the new Ukrainian Church.

Post-WWII, Stepan Bandera having been an eager Nazi collaborator that had eventually seen Nazis turn on him after making his desire to attain Ukrainian independence known, this aspect had motivated an outward-reaching but insular nationalistic mindset that's rooted in Nazi symbolism while having been shaped into a distinct entity and identity that's had more traditional elements of neo-Nazism apposed to the current ideology, angst and hate not always being intolerant should one's shade of hatred be complementary. Plus, anti-German sentiments have been greatly softened while anti-Russian ones were cranked up to whatever biggest number is on a volume knob these days, plus one. 

As such, OUN-minded Ukrainians will accept the help of anyone but a Russian, but only to achieve their goal, turning on all they consider a traitor (doesn't take much) or those who show signs of being one, or one who's branded as being predisposed to such behaviour based on lineage or associations.

The OUN-B line continued to eventually restructure and rebrand itself as the Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists (KUN) in 1993, registering itself as a political party.

That the political party gained little popularity and earned very few seats in government is irrelevant when a well-armed, violent, and intimidating bunch of folks are granted the freedom to bully and threaten their way, and some with the official titles are among those funding the ethno-nationalists, and everyone is corrupt... especially Bobinskii.

The father of "active nationalism," Dmytro Dontsov, prophesized in a doctrine titled "chynnyi natsionalizm" a new divine era that required that a new man be forged with the "fire of fanatical commitment," the metaphorical blacksmith "applying iron force of enthusiasm", this new man rising to open a new way into a better future that can only be attained through "the organization of a new violence."

That seems to inform the imagery that surrounds the Euromaidan, no?

Also, an aspect that's key given Ukraine's undefined national state, the country having found its current form after centuries of reformulations had been imposed on those now identifying as Ukrainians, the nationalist element on which the OUN places the most importance is: language.

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That British journalist/analyst Anatol Lieven, a senior fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft I'd mentioned in the previous post, he'd also discussed in that interview (link below)  being surprised to see how "nobody [he] talked to in Ukraine had any kind of plan for how to reintegrate the population [of Crimea]”

He then relayed that "a senior advisor to Zelenski said very candidly: ‘To hell with all these ideas of trying to reconcile the population of Crimea, we must purge arrest anyone who has collaborated with the Russians, and anyone who wants to continue to speak Russian, whether or not loyal to Russia, must leave.’"

(The Zero Hour with RJ Eskow: "Anatol Lieven: Update from Ukraine")

Kyiv's Zeeskyy's permanent representative for Crimea since April 2022, Tamila Tasheva, told Newsweek in a piece published on 16-Jul-2023, that "You can't punish everyone," as there are over 2 million pro-Russians on the island, but "Kyiv expects to blacklist some 10,000 Ukrainians who have collaborated with Russian authorities," once it has regained control of Crimea.

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Dylan Burns, an American streamer and self-admitted fake, socialist-for-money leftist—he and Vaush both said as much in an Aug 2022 video—decided to take his streaming money and go to Ukraine. Staying on the very non-Russian side of things and becoming sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause real fast, having fallen in with some girl and crowd with more extremist leanings and ties.

In Sep 2022 he'd uploaded an interview with a Ukrainian fighter that he believed would establish why more weapons needed to be sent and all Russians killed, but the impression I'd been left with is how absolutely no one would tolerate what had been said had "Russians" been swapped with "Jews" or practically any other nationality.

"Orc" was probably the nicest things said about Russians.

Burns hadn't even tried to connect with the ethnic-Russians and attempt to find out anything from their point of view first hand; he just absorbed the hate, and joined in cheering for death.

Oh, Yeah! That Poll

That recent poll published by VoxUkraine I'd mentioned many paragraphs ago.

VoxUkraine's "About Us" page states: "We are an independent analytical platform. We help Ukraine move into the future. We focus on economics, governance, social developments and reforms. Neither parties nor oligarchs support us."

It's clients are: "For citizens and institutions striving for systemic change. We work for people who trust the facts and analytical approach. For everyone who wants to live in modern Ukraine, a part of the global world."

Target audience: Ukrainians aged 18-70 residing in Ukraine or abroad (Poland, Czech Republic, Germany, United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, France, Slovakia, and others).

Sample: 1,466 respondents from Ukraine and 327 respondents from abroad.

Note the "abroad" countries included, which are select EU countries. That's what the poll lumps under "abroad". A bit like that Pew poll about the 'world's' attitude toward China that saw that the world as being limited to the collective West and a few Asian buddies.

The results:

• 43% of respondents in Ukraine and 36% abroad disagreed with the statement “Nazi and/or neo-Nazi ideology is not widespread in Ukraine.”
• 29% of respondents in Ukraine and 35% abroad disagreed with the statement: “The Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine in 2013-2014 was NOT a coup.”
• 26% of respondents in Ukraine and 29% abroad agreed with the statement “Russia is fighting against the West/NATO in Ukraine.”
• 25% of respondents in Ukraine and 29% abroad agreed with the statement “The West is using Ukraine for its own purposes in the war against Russia.”
• 32% of Respondents abroad agreed with the statement “Russian speakers are oppressed in Ukraine.”

The important thing, as their conclusion, which you can read on their page (VoxUkraine link above) is total BS unless Putin and his propaganda fooled enough rogue outlets to convince that many people among all those we're told are firmly anti-Russian and pro-Freedom & Democracy to buy into the "pro-Putin talking points." 

Even with the double-negative, either people believe what they live or that many are deluded by Russian propaganda? Really?

How stupid do you think we are?

The poll did not account for approximately 3 million people residing in Crimea and the several millions that felt forced to flee the East and find support in Russia, omitting roughly 22 million voices who would, without a doubt, agree with the “anti-Ukraine” interpretation of statements presented.

Those numbers are significant, especially given the atmosphere of fear that weighs on anyone not in line with the one Kyiv snorts pushes.

The sample is small; are those responsible for the poll willing to admit that what they believed established their fantasy to apply control over info is skewed as they must have selected badly, got unlucky, and fell on a high ratio of weeds among green splendour?

Wouldn't that put all their other polls into question?

About Those Nazi-esque Folks...

(Full document: DHS CBP US Intelligence Notice - 7-Mar-2022)

Aside from the thousands in Ukraine, one factor that's way overlooked is the number of foreigners with an extremist bent and bloodlust that the conflict in East Ukraine attracted, both prior to 24-Feb-2023 and after.

Per the Department of Homeland Security notice, between 24-Feb and 3-Mar-2022, 16,000 volunteers had signed up to fight the Russians, more than 3,000 of them Americans.

Notice the part that says “Ukrainian nationalist groups including the Azov Movement are actively recruiting racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist white supremacists to join various neo-Nazi volunteer battalions in the war against Russia”?

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) may have kept quiet if not flat out refuting any claims of "Nazis", yet they include a clear mention of such entities being amply present and drawing members from all areas of the globe, and point out what's to be a possible concern when such soldiers return home to the US (and elsewhere).

Why Those Matter More Than Those All Over?

First off, it's hard to take many in the West seriously when they're sounding the warning bells that "MAGA cultists" are mega far-right neo-Nazi-promoting, anti-democratic, anti-universal-heathcare monsters while simultaneously wanting to wash with soap the mouth of anyone pointing out the Nazi-esque folks in Ukraine (if not hanging and burning them?).

Second, because those Nazi-esque folks received loads of training, money, and weapons. The ones sipping Kentucky Bourbon in Tennessee aren't treated so well, especially not by some guy called Jack Daniels.     

Thirdly, because the Mujahideen, the Taliban, then  Al-Qaeda, then ISL... throw El Salvador in there and any you feel I'm missing and... haven't ya'll grasped the lesson yet?

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